Funky Stuff

Fred,
I really like this piece. My first reaction was semi-negative, (I guess I'm not used to listening to this style,) but towards the end of it I began to get into it! Using my imagination, I think that a vibraphone solo would go pretty good in there. Don't give it up!

~Daniel

Hi Fred,

Like it. As I did with the previous one, I keep getting the feeling that it should be longer--not necessarily repeats, but more development. I particularly like the sax/trumpet/trombone dialog and wouldn't mind hearing them talk to each other longer. Where would the vibe solo go? Sounds like it might be good.

all best,
mgj

Hi Daniel,
Thanks! I'm glad it got you humming. I'm still working on the vibes part.The solo is fine but it really needs some better back-up. This piece is my "Unfinished non-symphony". It could take a while.
Cheers,
Fred

Hi MG,
I like "Hit Me Wit' It" more, but I'm not done with this one. Where the vibes solo would go is one of the things I have been struggling with. I think I would want to bring the band back in before the solo, but with an entirely different riff (that would drive my teacher crazy, but I have always been a little unorthodox).
Cheers,
Fred

Howdy Sherry,
I don't know how hard the base line is to play. (I'm sure it's easier on the keyboard). I need to change the base line where the instrument "fours" are. It should be lower (and more better). I have been working, for over a year, on a folder I call "Stuff in a box". I don't touch my keyboard until I press the record button because I have no idea what might come out of it. I have files that are only 2 or 4 measures long, some 8 or 12 bars long and others that are really long. They contain phrases for solos or melodies or bass lines or drum parts or motifs for future songs. There is a lot of good stuff in them, but there is also a lot of junk in them as well. For this one piece, I have 22 different short files that contain pieces of solos or piano riffs and some are just for rhythm. It will never be revealed because there is too much garbage in with some good stuff and I can't delete the garbage because it is intermingled with the usable parts. It takes hours to match up the stuff I need. Oh well, I like crossword puzzles anyway.
Thanks!
Fred

Hi Sherry,
Thanks for the tips!! I have been looking for a piece I did a while back that used two base lines in unison with different base sounds. One was the slap base and it is very possible the other could have been fingered bass. I am going try a couple different ways to get the exact sound I want. I lost a lot of those files when my computer went kaput, and I'm hoping I still have that file with the 2 base lines. It was a really funky sound. I meant to change the base line behind the other instrument solos, but I forgot to do it before I uploaded it. At one point, I neglected to select the vibes for the vibes solo and it played as a trumpet. I liked that, though. We seem to do a number of things the same way. I also use your idea of recording the meter and then changing the notes. I don't use one note, though, I try to get it as close as possible first to what is going on in my head. Thanks again for the help. You are the bass expert, that's for sure!
Fred

Fred,

Your Funky Tonk piece is really a kick!

I'm very interested in learning where this piece came from. Is this your tune? Did you layer in the tracks one by one by recording from your MIDI keyboard into Composer?

Cheers
-- Mark

Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton! I'll try to give you some idea of how I developed it. I have been doing things a little differently lately, other than my usual recording on the fly. This was done mostly the old way...playing a few measures on the keyboard, then entering the notes manually. The instrument parts (brass to baritone sax) are very simple. You'll notice a lot of octaves. The brass and trumpets especially. These songs were written mainly for sound, not for orchestral reading or for a score. I would prefer using more harmony, but I can't seem to get the power that way, hence the unison. I can slip in some harmonies ( usually just 3rds or 5ths)with the tenor, alto or baritone or one of the trombone tracks below the trumpets but that is about it. Most of the other harmonies are done by the piano.After entering the notes for the melody (usually with the mouse, sometimes directly from the keyboard) it is simply a matter of a lot of cut and paste. Piano parts are usually done on the keyboard, as are some of the base parts. Then, it becomes a matter of altering the volumes for effect, and quite a bit of editing shifting attacks and release etc. For solos, I start a new file just for a particular instrument. I have a total of 24 files for this one song that I used in pieces and pasted those parts into the main file after a lot of editing there also. The drum parts are usually simple drum or drum and base loops downloaded from the Internet over the year. They are usually 4,8 or 12 bar loops...sort of a mini "band in a box". Mine own creation is "Stuff in a box". Then when I need to change those parts in places, I just copy the notes for each drum or cymbal and add my own rhythm. I'm not too good at creating the whole drum thing from scratch, but I can modify something that is already there in another form. The "walking" base parts were mostly done on the keyboard, but the initial "funky" style is one of those drum and bass loops, modified to fit the song. It's not really all that difficult to do, it just takes a lot of time..like putting a puzzle together. I know the sound could be a lot better, but I don't think there is much more I can do with MS GM Wavetable. One of these days I'll get GPO and have some real fun! Hope I was able to answer some of your questions. Thanks again for the interest!
Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred,

Thanks for describing how you composed Funky Tonk. I can recommend your method to others as a sort 10% Band-in-a-Box / 90% compose-from-scratch approach. The 10% Band-in-a-Box part is the drum loops and bass line that you've patched together and modified.

A lot of MidiNotate composers use the 50% Band-in-a-Box / 50% composer-from-scratch approach. Clyde comes to mind. I can also recommend that approach to those who want to get a quicker start on a new piece.

How many hours did you spend on Funky Tonk so far? I'm prepared to hear a pretty big number, because composing music takes a lot of time for most of us... but fun time.

Cheers
-- Mark

Hi Mark,

I have never kept accurate time of how much time I spent on a song, but I would venture to guess on FunkyTonk, probably about 60 hours. That's weird! My favorite composition is "The Summer's Gone" and that took about 5 minutes. I think Band-in-a-box would be a good investment for me. My Stuff-in-a-box is so cluttered and it's not a program, just a big file. I came across a web site where you could download a ton of band-in-a-box files for free that could be used with the program. I downloaded some by accident, not realizing that is what they were for. Of course, I could not use them. I don't remember the web site, but it could have been Hit Squad.
Cheers,
Fred

Hello Fred,

That you spent 60 hours on this is about what I would have guessed. Sure, you conceived (or probably improvised) your Summer's Gone piece in 5 minutes. But it takes a lot of time to write it down, refine, and orchestrate it, whether you're using pencil and eraser, or Composer, or some other tool. (Hopefully, Composer offers the quickest and most enjoyable way to do that.)

Nice work you did here!

Cheers
-- Mark

Hello Fred,

Funky Tonk has a quick ending that might be interpreted as making the piece too short, but I find the ending quite convincing and decisive. It leaves the piece briefy ringing in the ears after it has stopped, so that the mind needs a second to catch up and agree with piece that, oh yeah, this piece has told me clearly that it's done. I wouldn't want every piece to end that way, but when a piece does it convincingly, as Funky Tonk does, it takes on a distinct, crisp character at the end. I like the ending.

Cheers
-- Mark

Hi Fred, Mark,

No critique of the ending itself. It is a fine ending. But I wouldn't use that cane if there were a lot more of the music that comes before it, before it arrives.

The tale of the tapes made me cringe. I can't really comprehend how devastating the sense of loss must be.

all best,
mgj

Hi MG,
Thanks!
Yeah, the tape thing made me pretty angry at the time, but it's even more devastating now. How much fun would it have been to be able to use some of my actual solos from those days in my songs today? There was a ton of stuff on those tapes. We used to do a few "Four Freshmen" tunes. One of the tapes was a couple of months of rehearsals from beginning to the end product. The two vocal parts in the middle were, very often, only 1/2 to 1 tone apart (as in chord inversion #3) that made it very difficult to master. That style was one of the crucial things that made the Freshmen sound so unique. It was very interesting to hear the songs go from extremely bad to perfect. I guess it dramatically pointed out how important practice really is. Would you believe the recorder still works?
Cheers,
Fred

Hello Fred,

Well, perhaps if you still had all those tapes, you'd now just be sitting back in a chair listening to them, instead of making new music!

That was indeed a big loss.

Cheers
-- Mark