Somewhere Duet

[rrayner]

Hi Jane,

You might want to take a look at the new posting I made for "Transposing the Duets", so that you can play the lead on your Alto Recorder and still hear the proper harmony as Notation plays along with you.

Ralph

[JaneLewis]

Hi Ralph

Thanks for the post about Transposing.

When I came to try to play the Alto line of your duets I couldn’t understand them because they show notes on the score which are below what the Alto recorder can play.

I then realised that they didn’t sound as written because they show harmonies that shouldn’t work, yet they sound OK when played by Notation on the computer.

I enlisted my daughter’s help and we found a place in one of them that showed middle C written in both staves … yet the notes were not the same when played in Notation! I couldn’t understand why, but my daughter tells me that the 5 semitones up that the Alto line had been transposed means that it can be played on the Alto recorder using Soprano recorder fingering.

We don’t learn that way over here … we learn different fingering for the two recorders. I have to transpose the Alto line so that C ‘sounds as C’ and not as F! Then, in order to look right on the staff it needed to go up an octave!

We got it sorted and I learned about transposing in the process!

Thanks for the duets and the enforced learning that came with them!

Jane

[rrayner]

Hi Jane,

Well, I am truly staggered -- and embarrassed. My formal training was on Tenor Saxophone (Flute and Clarinet) with an orientation toward the Piano keyboard. I am a self-taught Recorder player. My wife Cynthia had bought a Soprano Recorder over 30 years ago and never learned to play it. As she is now married to a musician, she asked me to teach her to read music and play her Soprano. So, we learned the baroque fingerings for it, and after a while, she bought me an Alto Recorder. I never even looked at the fingering chart that came with the Alto. After reading your post, I frantically dug out the fingering chart that came with my Alto, and I found, exactly as you are describing, the lowest written note for baroque fingering on an Alto is the F in the bottom space of the staff. In my ignorance, I treated the Alto just like any of the other modern concert instruments, i.e., Saxophones, Clarinets, Trumpets, English and French Horns, and transposed it, and as you say, used the Soprano fingerings for it.

So, for the embarrassment part -- I've posted about 100 songs and exercises in this forum that technically and classically have Alto Recorder parts that are not written correctly. My assumption is that probably most, if not all, of this forum's reader are not actually playing an Alto Recorder and are simply transposing the Alto part for whatever instrument(s) they are playing.

Thank you very much for enlightening me in this regard. I have to say I personally prefer using the Soprano fingerings on the Alto, and not having to deal with all of those ledger lines above the staff. I will continue to post songs and exercises in the same manner, as I want to be consistent with all that I have posted before. It seems the way you treat the Alto Recorder over there should have been the way I treated it over here.

Well, this should explain all the confusion you and your daughter had to deal with. My apologies to you and to all followers of this forum who actually play Alto Recorders.

Ralph Rayner

[rrayner]

Hi Jane,

Would you please take a look/listen to the attached file? I have tried to make it for two Altos, so that you could play Alto I and have Alto II "sound" right. I'm trying to figure out how to modify my transposition directions so they make sense to an Alto Recorder player.

The Alto II part in this version now goes too low to be properly played as written, but you will hear the correct harmony from Notation when you play the Alto I part on your Alto.

Please do let me know. I'm keenly interested in getting this right. Thank you.

Ralph Rayner

Note: All other viewers should use the file below attached to the original posting.

[JaneLewis]

Hi Ralph

I have downloaded your revised file .... it sounds beautiful. I love the lower tones and aspire to being able to play more! The double alto recorder duet appeals greatly - I hope that my daughter and I will eventually be able to play these duets together as Alto I and Alto II. Or maybe sing them. It is nice to have the tune line written for the Alto.

I will need to enlist my daughters help again because I have only learnt 5 notes on my recorder so far .... I'm a real beginner! Also, although I learnt the violin to grade 5 at school (many decades ago), I have had no formal music training.

Watching the file play through has now taught me a bit about reading music .... D.C. al Coda and the symbol were a bit of a mystery to me and I have had trouble with this in the choir I sing with. Thanks for the further learning you are enabling. I am very new to using Notation and on a steep learning curve - but it's fun and exciting.

I'm off to bed now and possibly looking after a sick grandson tomorrow while my daughter teaches music in school.

Wishing you well.

Jane

[rrayner]

Hi Jane,

To address some of your questions and straighten out a number of things in my own mind, please see the Transposing the Duets thread. I have made a complete revision and hopefully it will be more helpful to you.

Thank you for helping me learn some new stuff about Recorders.

Ralph Rayner

[Sherry C]

Hi folks,

Jane and Ralph, thanks so much for your exchange here. I myself didn't realize that the different recorders (being in different keys) simply used different fingerings rather than transposing for a single fingering style.

I play whistles, and I learned fingering in key of D (or G), and so whenever I've used Ralph's (or anyone else's) scores, I always transpose the part I want to play for whistle to fit my learned fingering. Ergo, I never had a second thought about how Ralph was doing it (I also have no idea if that's "the way it's done" or if I just presumed - most whistle music is in D or G, and a little C.)

Anyway, I've learned something new, and that's always good

Thanks!
Sherry