Ricercare a Due Voci no. 12, Francesco Guami, 1588

[herbert]

Hi David,

I am using Composer and the Microsoft wavetable. The CC’s you mention have no effect whatsoever. I didn’t think that the Microsoft wavetable is as sophisticated. You must be using some other system.

In any case, changing CC values when driving a sample player, does not create new sounds but allows you to use a different set or sets of samples already contained in the sample player. Some CC’s may control effects or LF oscillators for vibrato control.

Cheers,

Herbert

[dj]

Hi, guys:

Well, I'm using the word "sound" in a more generic sense than being a specific voice on a synth or sampler.

Much of the perceived quality of a musical note lies in the attack phase of the envelope. Remove the attack from a piano note and it is difficult to differentiate from violin.

By slowing the attack time down, using Midi CC 73, Walt removed the initial "punch" from the clarinet and organ voices he selected, allowing them to be smoother and more vocal-esque.

The synth I was playing back on was a Yamaha XG machine, which responds to more Midi CC's than the basic Microsoft Wavetable device. Although I don't use it, I would suspect that software like Garritan would respond to most CCs.

The only thing I miss on the XG machine is portamento, which Walt also used on the Ricercare piece. I should should play it into my Korg or Oberheim and see what happens.

David

[Sherry C]

Hi guys,

Good points David - when I started digging into sound fonts I was amazed at what folks could do with the sounds based on the different MIDI ccs they used (eg. "pads", etc.). Not all libraries or sound samples or VSTis use the same ccs for the same parameters, nor do they all respond to cc's that are used for different libraries/sound samples/VSTis.

If you're into using MIDI for audio production, you've really got to know the particular controllers used for your sounds, and how to use them to achieve the desired effects.

ttfn,
Sherry

[herbert]

Hi,

Here is the problem, we don’t know what instrument library Walt has used. He might tell us.
Generally we should expect that unless the music is presented using the Microsoft wavetable, we should also be provided with a .mp3 file and some indication of the samples used. What do you think, should this not be a rule?

It is possible but not so likely that Walt and David have used identical sample libraries.

David could you please post us a .mp3 file of what you hear?


Cheers,

Herbert

[Sherry C]

Hi guys,

Well, we don't have to require sound files (and the storage space would start getting a bit much) but it is certainly nice to hear a song the way that the person creating it intends it to sound.

One way that we've accomplished that in the past is to have folks use something like DropBox, SoundCloud, SoundClick, etc, and then share the link to listen. There is a thread with links to some of these "store and share" sites at http://www.notation.com/vb-forum/showthread.php?t=3130 (please feel free to add others.)

However I also know that sometimes folks are creating a work that is intended for a live band and so don't always tweak the .not or .mid file to what they hear in their head. They annotate the score and then let the live musicians do the work. I plead guilty on that one myself

So, please do feel free to share sound files if you want/can. But don't feel obligated

ttfn,
Sherry

[aulos43]

I only have time now to post the mp3 file. I'll chime in on ictus, cc's and sound libraries, and publish a convincing case supporting it being a vocal piece, later.

Unfortunately, I am not able to produce a straight rendering of the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth on my Windows Vista laptop. I used iTunes on the exported midi file for the conversion and it has added some ambiance (at least the reverb). Not sure if it used the MS GS Synth, or supplied its own GM library.

Walt

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[aulos43]

Herbert,

"I doubt, w[h]ether the music was composed for singing. The rhythmic contents of the voices are to[o] different to permit a common text."

There is an enormous amount of music, especially before 1800, were there is not a "common text," as I take your meaning.

Attached are two bicinia, one, by Orlando di Lasso, 1577, using an actual text, and another, by Francesco Guami, 1588, shown as sung using solemnization.

I think this answers your doubt.

I enjoyed the opportunity to research this -- it's been decades since I've delved into this in depth.

Regards

Walt

PS These two examples are from a PhD thesis, "Two-part Didactic Music in Printed Italian Collections of the Renaissance and Baroque (1521-1744)," by Andrea Bornstein, found at http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/677/1/Bornstein01PhD.pdf

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