Harlem Nocturne Septet

[Sherry C]

Hi David,

Originally Posted by dj

That's like "How many bass players does it take to screw in a light bulb?" Answer: "None. The piano player will do it with his left hand."

Sorry, Sherry.

That's ok, I tell that joke too.

And then duct tape everything left of middle C on the keyboard if the keyboard player touches it

ttfn,
Sherry

[aulos43]

Hi Ralph.

Nice.

Could you tell me what the intent of the slur markings over staccato notes is? Is that a breath marking?

I got the "Music Notation (Berklee Guide)" in February, but haven't had a chance to get too far into it. I took an orchestration class back in the 70's and have some background in reading string, keyboard and recorder music -- they each treat slurs their own way. And it varies from era to era and place to place, it seems.

Would appreciate the views of a working musician with a jazz perspective.

Thanks

Walt

----

[rrayner]

Hi Walt,

Yes, the slurs in this instance are simply for phrasing. The arranger does not want to the soloist to sneak a breath within that phrase. It would be very disruptive to the flow of the piece. Unwritten in the score is the implication that the soloist had better take a good breath before entering the next phrase. On a cold read, the soloist might not catch the intent, but thereafter, it will be remembered. Those are fairly long phrases and as they proceed into the lower depths of the tenor sax, a lot more air is required, particularly by the time you get to the sustained low B. I make certain to take a big gulp before the final eighth notes in measures 23 and 31 when entering these phrases.

There are definitely areas in scoring for jazz/big band where notation is a little bit different. Sherry commented one time about my usage of the tenuto symbol (dash over the note head), which in swing notation tells the player not to swing eighth notes, but to play each eighth note evenly, because the unmarked eighth notes are supposed to swing.

If I may enter a plug here for one of my former Berklee instructors, Everett Longstreth has a couple of very good arranging books for jazz and dance band on his website at http://www.everettlongstreth.com/. He was/is a very good instructor.

Ralph

[herbert]

Hi Ralph,

What can I say, “Nice”.

I note that you use for the bass a relatively low velocity of 48 and a volume of 100. This is what I usually do with an acoustic bass. It gives the bass a mellow sustained sound. How did you get the vibrato on some of the notes of the tenor sax? You clearly put priority on good notation.

There is a certain monotony, typical for computer generated music. It relates to the precision and with it, the predictability of where each note falls, whereas real jazz musicians play intuitively around with the timing, perhaps just minutely to create that extra expressive tension, generating a feeling of liberation, recognised as swinging. I have no formula, nor can I give any advice.

I am very keen about modern jazz. This is not at all reflected in my arrangements. All I do is to please a middle aged public.

Best wishes,

Herbert

[rrayner]

Hi Herbert,

Thank you for the compliment.

Originally Posted by herbert

I note that you use for the bass a relatively low velocity of 48 and a volume of 100. This is what I usually do with an acoustic bass. It gives the bass a mellow sustained sound.

This is an area that I am pretty shaky in, Herbert. I note that I do have the velocity set to 47, except oddly for the first note. Has to be a mistake. And of course, the bowed Fine is louder. I have not discovered the mysteries of working with loudness, except on a very basic level, and at that, mostly in diminuendi and crescendi. Basically, I set the velocity at what to my ear is a proper balance. I need to get more into the shading between velocity and volume. So far, to me, velocity is much easier to work with.

Originally Posted by herbert

How did you get the vibrato on some of the notes of the tenor sax? You clearly put priority on good notation.

I wish I could claim something special on the sax sound, but depending on which medium you are referring to, the mp3 file was created by going from Composer > export to midi > my Clavinova (which has some very nice sounds) > export to wav file > convert to mp3. The "not" file of course sounds as good as your sound card. However, I do have the Bank Selection customized for the Clavinova with Ctrl 0 = 0 and Ctrl 32 = 126, which may work some magic on your sound card. On the other point, I am now writing for a long-distance friend's dectet, so I want to make certain that the parts look good. I won't be there to hear what the players have to say, so I try to limit the complaints.

Originally Posted by herbert

There is a certain monotony, typical for computer generated music. It relates to the precision and with it, the predictability of where each note falls, whereas real jazz musicians play intuitively around with the timing, perhaps just minutely to create that extra expressive tension, generating a feeling of liberation, recognised as swinging. I have no formula, nor can I give any advice.

I understand. I am caught in a trap of professing to write with Composer with a better more natural swing feel. I could do a much better job of achieving this goal if I were to vary individual attacks and durations, but I am not trying to hit perfection -- just trying to get a little closer. When I play along with these charts on my Clavinova, at least it does not feel quite as stilted as without the attack and duration modifications I make. I am well aware that individuals do not play like machines and would never be as precise as a PC, but I am laying out the framework for some fun play-along and I have rationalized that I would rather have more charts to play along with than to do massive tweaking on the parts of fewer charts. My favorite instrumentalist for "bending time" is the alto man, "Cannonball" Adderly (deceased). I would love to see the variations in attack and duration on some of his solos.

Originally Posted by herbert

I am very keen about modern jazz. This is not at all reflected in my arrangements. All I do is to please a middle aged public.

All we can do is do the best we can and bring pleasure to ourselves, and hopefully to others around us. Keep the faith!

Ralph

[herbert]

Hi Ralph,

My comments on your arrangements were about the .mp3 file. Playing the song over Composer, using the MS wave table on my computer, sounds awful. However I did look at the notation with interest.

All of music production is very time consuming. It took Richard Wagner 26 years to create the Ring. This included, designing new instruments and convincing wealthy royalty to built for him a most audacious venue, just to perform his works, as well as chasing after all the wives of his friends and even writing music for them. Wagner was a great innovator. Midi is today’s great innovation, completely revolutionising music production. Midi connects notation with the actual acoustic experience we want to obtain.

The language of midi is much more the language of engineers, technicians and computer programmers, not the language of musicians.

Velocity is a measure of how harsh or soft a note sounds. If you hit a keyboard key with great fury, at a high velocity, you will get a harsh sound. If you hit a keyboard key gently, that is slowly or at a low velocity, the sound will be mellow. Balancing Velocity and Channel Volume, gives you the ability to set the character of a note. For instance for an aggressive Trombone you would select a high Velocity, while adjusting the Channel Volume, to blend the sound level with the other instruments. Alongside with the name Velocity, Composer uses incorectly the name Loudness. This could be confusing. Loudness does not exist in the language of music, nor does it exist in the language of midi. Loudness relates to the human hearing physiology. See for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness

For a mellow sustained sound of plugged instrument such as an acoustic bass or an acoustic nylon stringed guitar, I use a low velocity value at a higher channel volume as you have done for the bass.

If you are only concerned about producing good notation, there is no need to spend much time on midi editing. There would however be a very considerable time involved in midi editing if you were producing the music track for instance for a Hollywood motion picture. In each case there will be a compromise of time spent against returns. I certainly have to limit the time I spend, for getting a necessary result. To obtain natural sounding results, the essential midi editing tasks are:

1. All notated expressions.
2. Spread out the point of time of attack of percussive and plucked instruments.
3. Set velocity and channel volume.
4. Set vibrato if used.
5. Set pan if used.

Various sample libraries provide the ability of programming special articulation such as shakes, kisses, doits and falloffs for brass, etcetera. Removing the “machine gun effect” is quite important too. Unfortunately, the list of CCs in Notation Composer is not complete.

Again it is all a compromise, in getting desired results for time spent, as you also indicate.


Herbert

[rrayner]

Hi Herbert,

Thank you for your insight, and the amount of time you spent on your response. There is so much to learn and so little time. I am continually torn by my priorities, but in the end, what has to be done is what gets done. The rest is dessert.

I understand what you are saying about volume and velocity -- I just have not tried to put it to practical use yet. Whereas I appreciate your compliment on the volume/velocity level of the bass, I cannot claim credit. Looking at the score, I see that the trombone, baritone sax, bass and drums are all set to a static volume of 100. The trumpet is set to 96 and the tenor sax is set at 110. I don't know how this came to be. What probably happened is that my original score for "Harlem Nocturne" was written on my Clavinova (before Composer came into my life), where I painstakingly entered each and every note with a very tedious data entry capability. I took that midi file, imported it into Composer and cleaned up the notation, so the volume levels had to have come from that source. I do not yet have the knowledge to have done that intentionally. But, spurred by the dialogs by you and others on the subject, I will try to become more knowledgeable in this area. I know that over the years, I have been very displeased at my inability to create a more legato effect in the horns. I have a suspicion that you are leading me into an area of discovery. Heaven knows, Sherry and Mark have tried to educate me in this area, but it has just seemed to bounce off.

Thank you for all of your commentary. I will see if I can put it to good use.

Ralph